Poverty is not created by the poor, but by the system
Me mikrokredinë ai shpëtoi një miliardë njerëz nga varfëria. Tani idetë e tij funksionojnë edhe në Shtetet e Bashkuara. Fituesi i Çmimit Nobel për Paqen flet për utopinë e tij.
2024-06-26 20:03:08
Erjon Uka
Muhammad Yunus, Nobel Peace Prize winner, the man who changed the lives of a billion human beings, hopes for an economic system based on the entrepreneurial ability of individuals. Since 1976, when Muhammad gave his first loan to a starving woman on the edge of his college campus, over a billion people have benefited from the most innovative credit system of the modern era: Microcredit.
You invented microcredit. Today, billions of people are able to survive only thanks to this system that was born out of the traditional banking system. What remains of this legacy? And what could evolution be?
We are trying to figure out how to change the whole financial system because we think that finance is the key to solving the problems of poverty. Poverty is not created by the poor, it is created by the system. So, one of the main changes we need to make is related to the financial system, which today is based on the principle that the more you have, the more you can get. This means that if you have little, you cannot get financing. This is one of the main causes of poverty in the world. What we did was create a financial "counter-system" saying: we bless you. You are attractive. We want to meet you. That's why we offer you services. The financial system today caters to men and not women, not poor women. Today, the financial system is based on guarantees, while we said that we do not need collateral. The fact that we are all human beings is enough for a starting point. There are no lawyers in our system. We changed everything that conventional banks do and created Microcredit, like we created the Grameen Bank by reaching millions and millions of women around the world and changing their lives because they became entrepreneurs. Finance is the oxygen of entrepreneurship. So we supplied them with oxygen and they came to life.
You imagine the future with "three zeros": zero poverty, zero unemployment, zero pollution. Is it a feasible project and if so, how? Or is it just about utopia? Who or what can help you achieve this goal? What allies do you need?
I like that you mentioned the word utopia. Utopia is imagination. And I always say that to start something big we need imagination. We are destroying the planet with global warming, extreme forms of wealth concentration and creating high unemployment rates. All this must be reversed. We must imagine a world where these things do not exist, and then begin to create institutions, policies, and structures to materialize this world. Our vision is clear. These are the "three zeros": zero unemployment, zero poverty and zero global warming. These are the three things we must do to create a new civilization.
In Italy, the social gap has grown in recent years. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Wages have frozen and many young people prefer to go abroad. What measures can be considered to reduce this gap? Among other things, you are an opponent of the minimum wage. Why?
It's not just an Italian problem. It is a problem of every country, of every community. This is because we used the same economic framework in terms of profit maximization. We use all our talent, all our creativity, to take wealth from people and buy it through businesses. And this business is not necessarily for the good of the planet, it is not necessarily for the good of the people. So if you look at Italy, you will see that all the national wealth is going into the hands of the few who stand at the top. Today, the ten richest countries in the world extract all the world's wealth for themselves, while it is the rest of the world that is providing them with that wealth. The idea that we should start from work is wrong. We should not look for work, we should build the work. Entrepreneurial birth, so we must create a society in which entrepreneurial skills are encouraged. You talked about the minimum wage. I am not against the minimum wage. But I am against a welfare system, because it takes people's initiative away. If the government promises, "If you had no income, I'll give you money to survive," that's a welfare system. Meanwhile, the government should help you with something else, it should help you become an entrepreneur.
Papa Françesku thotë se po përballemi me ndryshime që do të prekin njerëzimin në shekujt e ardhshëm. Ne duhet të ripërcaktojmë atë që është njerëzore dhe ta mbrojmë përpara se të jetë tepër vonë. Muajin e kaluar, gjatë samitit botëror për vëllazërinë njerëzore nga Selia e Shenjtë, ju u takuat me Papa Françeskun. A keni folur për të? Ju u takuat gjithashtu me Presidentin Sergio Mattarella. Çfarë i thatë njëri-tjetrit?
Ndihem vërtet me fat që pata mundësinë të ftohesha nga Papa Françesku. Jo vetëm këtë herë. Disa herë në të kaluarën dhe gjithashtu kohët e fundit jam ftuar për të adresuar një pyetje shumë të rëndësishme: si të krijojmë një strukturë e re sociale globale. Si t'i bëjmë njerëzit të jetojnë së bashku në paqe dhe harmoni. Ky është apeli prej nga donim t’ia nisnim. Dhe ai më zgjodhi mua për të përfaqësuar të gjithë fituesit e çmimit Nobel të ftuar. Presidenti Mattarella ishte shumë i sjellshëm me mua. Sa herë vij në Itali, më fton ta takoj. Është një njeri i mrekullueshëm dhe shkojmë shumë mirë. Ai ka të njëjtat shqetësime si unë, ndajmë ide dhe qëllime të përbashkëta.
Në janar, në mes të fushatës zgjedhore, një gjykatë ju dënoi me gjashtë muaj burg; Pak ditë më parë ju hodhën pas hekurave duke ju akuzuar për evazion fiskal dhe mashtrim. Më shumë se 200 liderë nga e gjithë bota nga Barack Obama te Romano Prodi, nga Shtëpia e Bardhë në Gana, nga Franca në Brazil, po bëjnë thirrje për t'i dhënë fund persekutimit tuaj. Si ndihet një lider i vlerësuar nga të gjithë, por i persekutuar në vendin e vet?
Kryeministri i vendit tim më urren, nuk e shpjegojmë dot arsyen. Ai del me breshëri akuzash të rreme ndaj meje: falsifikim, përvetësim, pastrim parash. Akuza të çmendura dhe imagjinare. Unë çdo ditë tërhiqem zvarrë në gjykatë dhe më duhet të qëndroj brenda një kafazi hekuri ndërkohë që proceset gjyqësore vazhdojnë. Nuk e kuptoj pse, thonë se ky është zakoni në Bangladesh. Është e tmerrshme, çnjerëzon gjithçka. Unë ende nuk jam shpallur fajtor. Nëse fajësia nuk provohet, prezumohet pafajësia. Edhe pse Amnesty International apo Fondacioni Clooney dhe shumë organizata të të drejtave të njeriut sikundër edhe Kombet e Bashkuara kanë deklaruar se ky është një shfrytëzim gjyqësor, ai sërish vazhdon. Kështu që unë paraqitem në sallën e gjyqit dy herë në muaj e kështu vazhdon. Kjo ma bën jetën shumë të vështirë.
Some argue that democracies can be threatened by a number of factors, including the erosion of democratic institutions, the manipulation of public opinion through disinformation and the use of technology, economic and social instability, the rise of authoritarianism, etc. How can the world's great democracies adapt and withstand the challenges we face?
You mentioned a widespread problem: authoritarianism is on the rise, as was also seen in the recent European Union elections. Right-wing parties, Donald Trump, Marine Le Pen are growing. Democracy, human rights, freedom of speech, all cherished values, are at risk and may in the future no longer exist. Profit maximization is the essence of this civilization and that is what is killing it. This is why social business becomes so important for everyone. It is not something that is done for the poor, it is done for everyone. This is the most humane thing you can think of, because man is transformed into creative power. We get excited about solving problems that have never been solved before by creating social enterprises. Not to get rich and over-rich.
*Muhammad Yunus is a social entrepreneur, banker, economist and civil society leader who has been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for founding the Grameen Bank and for pioneering the concepts of microcredit and microfinance. His book "Building social business" was published in Albanian. The interview for Emilio Carelli was translated by Erjon Uka.
